New face of todays terrorist. A jeans clad, mask less, young, vibrant, remorseless, 21 year old Ajmal Kasab presently captured and under arrest! Pic taken at VT station by Mr. Sebastaian D’souza, Mumbai Mirror photographer, in a bravura display, amidst gunshots and at great risk to life.
Updated: Anger is a luxury we cannot afford. Hopelessness an emotion we dare not feel. Forgetfulness a crime we cannot indulge in. I promise to keep this post as a sticky for one year henceforth so that neither me nor those who chance to visit my blog ever forego the memory of the attack on us Mumbaikars in particular and Indians in general. In an effort to tabulate the developments as they occur, the direct fallout of public anger and action, Government changes will be recorded here. At the end of the year we will know at a glance just what our resurgence has accomplished.. Hope you are all ears Mr. Minister. We will survive despite you!
For further updates click on header.
Update 15th Dec’08: Bombay burns from within, yet. There is a semblance of calm. But scratch the surface and the wounds reveal, bleeding, raw, pernicious. We arent willing to and wont allow a forgetting of the incident..thank God for that! Media’s role in keeping the hurt alive cannot be spelled out enough. It has been more than a breaking news story. Thank god for that, again! trite as this may sound but the catatonic results of the attacks has most certainly been an awakening like never before. The common man has been shaken out of his reverie to realise what ‘ People Power ” actually connotes. One wailed long and often at how the average Muslim refused to vocalise his angst against the Islamic terrorist. Fundamentalists, right wingers, left, rebels, across the board have proven this time that Islam is not about fanatical killing and jihad is not about war on the innocents. One cannot elucidate enough how the sight of slogan shouting Muslims, their ire against the attacks clearly marked, did soothe strained relations which may have festered over the years. India seemed on the brink of Unity..once again. Vande mataram! The ultras intention backfired in all areas of conflict. Physical. moral, national and International.
Sanctions for a NSG commando force for Mumbai, adequate weaponry for the Police force and outposts for the Naval Command along the Coast are further measures instantly approved.
How do we deal with Pakistan? Should we believe their swearing of innocence and claims of victimisation on similar lines? Is the clamp down on LEt and other nefarious groups genuine? Simply put is Pakistan responsible for the war on Bombay city? Are we willing to peel off the illusionist shades that create an opposing mirage of innocence? Too many contradicting scenarios that cloud sentiments.
Perhaps all we need now is a clear focus on securing our frontiers. Let us not permit a fallout of mis-governance on the part of our neighbours to spill over on our shores. Either they handle their bandits or summon our help!!
Update: 5th Dec’08: Lets not overdo the anger bit. Activism is the need of the hour but hyper activism can degenerate into a farcical exploitation of the situation. We need to be SEEN more than heard. There is nothing really we can advise the Govt of which they are not already aware. It is the execution and implementation which was sorely lacking. Lets face it we arent more informed than the specialists in the field in deptts of Intelligence, Army,Navy. The advice has been up to date, It was the lackadaisical appraoch of the decision makers that precipitated events..or am I being naive here and not taking into account ‘desh drohis’ in the garb of politicians who advertently suppressed warnings! For the sake of our nation, I hope it is the former.
Let us limit our actions to protests in one form or another. lets not try and create leaders from a bunch of media savvy citizens. There is nothing new being uttered by any of us. We all are linked in our emotion and reactions, some more vociferous, others more erudite and yet some who find this another reason to hog the limelight without really offering anything that is fresh or unprecedented. We all hold an equal right to express our thoughts . But let us be wise enough to know when to stop.
Or it may come to a point when the common man may raise a cry of ” Enough is Enough” for the newly enthused citizenry. Moderation is urgently needed.
War is not an option. Terrorism is a symptom. Pakistan its bosom. Ideology its nursery. So how does one eradicate the base? Certainly not through war with namby pamby neighbours who are shifting their stand like a ‘ bin painde ka lota’ .Unable to deal with factions who dictate terms to them, attack and degrade them, they seek solace in expressing half baked thoughts to India, depending largely on Ms. Rice’s ( read their AKKA’s) mood. Deplorable. their insincerity was never more pronounced!
On practical grounds now. Politicians are a necessary evil. We CANNOT replace them. We can at most contain their irresponsible and self centred behaviour through constant referendum on public spaces and outspokenness. Lets tray and work in tandem with the new lot. Lets not even hope that they would better their predecessors save from the fact that public accountability might make them wary of overt unprofessionalism.
Update 4th December 2008: I was at the Gateway Of India yesterday . Unprecedented!! One was expecting a few hundreds. But what emerged was a sea ..maybe a couple of lakhs! Indians finally united in their anger and anguish. Cutting across all barriers of caste, class, education, religion. It was simply marvellous. I was choked with emotion and moved to tears seeing the human pyramid for the waving of the National flag. It was a momentous moment..a show of thumb to those who tried their damnedest to attack us and also to the politicians who for long have sat back resignedly in their plush chairs, comfortable in the knowledge that India will take it!
NEVER AGAIN is my call! yesterday though was not a day to be heard but be seen! Our numbers spoke loud and clear even over the memory of the past din of grenades and bullets. India has woken up!! What hurts that the catalyst that finally emerged to alarm us out of our slumber was this horrendous episode. Nonetheless…it has happened finally. I had on a hunch written on the 29th that India would be on the roads. Never expected to see it fructify so soon and so satisfactorily!
Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh despite some hectic lobbying by his ministers was forced to resign yesterday! So Maharashtra Government has more or less been thrown out. Is this the change we want? maybe not. But it will sure be a deterrent for future lapses. No governement can now imagine unaccountability as part of the deal of governing. Perform, act and deliver is the new mantra!! Our taxes are a result of hard labor..we want security. No security No taxes! it could well be No Governance/Roads/ No Taxes. For now…our mission is accomplished. This post is on as mentioned earlier for the whole year. Our eyes are on you Mr Minister!
Update 2nd Decemeber 2008: this piece of information may prove the amswer to our woes at least to those of us who dont want to vote and yet be counted.
“Did you know that there is a system in our constitution, as per the 1969 act, in section ” 49-O” that a person can go to the polling booth, confirm his identity, get his finger marked and convey the presiding election officer that he/she doesn’t want to vote anyone! Yes such a feature is available, but obviously past present leaders have never disclosed it.
This is called “49-O”.
Why should You go and say “I VOTE NOBODY”. Because, in a ward, if a candidate wins, say by 123 votes, and that particular ward has received “49-O” votes more than 123, then that polling will be cancelled and will have to be re-polled. Not only that, but the candidature of the contestants will be removed and they cannot contest the re-polling, since people had already expressed their decision on them.” Umquote.
Update 1st December 2008 : Deputy Home Minister RR Patil resigns but not before making his DDLJ inspired statement that shocked the country and his colleagues enough to show him the door. He spake thus ” Itne bade shehar mein aisa ek aadh haadsa ho jata hai iska matlab yeh nahin intelligence failure hai” Loosely translated ‘ In big metros an event and a half such as this may occur but that doesnt mean it is an intelligence failure”. Well Mr. Patil your ouster is also a minor event and a half in our life. All the best. May you be successful in discovering those situations which are worthy of your time. Perhaps fishing in Ganapatiphule may just be it.
Oh and this has been an eventful day. Chief Minister Vilasrao deshmukh has also put in his paers of resignation, resignedly. Waiting for the final acceptance from Madam ji while Sh Chidambaram takes over as the new Home Minister albeit ‘disinclined-ly’ as said he.
they really are all out to please us arent they. Elections are around the corner. So the much needed NSG aircraft has finally been allocated, in addition to promise of providing every crucial requirement of the NSG force. On the 27th the commandos were transported in BEST buses to the TAJ ..believ you me. So now they are also asking for their own transport. All this while the tinted glasses of the BMWs of the ministers perhaps shaded the need of this basic necessity presumably.
All of a sudden things are moving ‘tabadtope’..Only makes you angrier since it brings the point home of apathy of the last 60 years, rather clearly.
Update 30th November ’08 : Union Home Minister Shivraj Patil resigns..finally.
Japanese ministers were reported to commit harakiri ( suicide) if their ministry erred. Its high time our ministers stand accountable for lapses that spell misery for innocents. Shivraj patil resigning, for whatever its is worth may be the first baby step towards Change. Somewhere the niggling doubt does creep in that it may be an eyewash to tide over the immediate crescendo of emotions of Indians worldwide.
Effective attrition of funding to terrorists by their Mother organisation may be the long term solution which makes it incumbent on all nations to co operate. Meanwhile the strengthening of our own security, is paramount. The 1993 riots witnessed RDX arriving by sea. Fifteen years later, nothings changed. We have to ensure this was the last time ever that these’ guerillas’ took us for a bunch of jokers..which sadly is how we must have appeared to the world at large.
Original post:
Mumbais tryst with terror and its shocking unfolding makes it well nigh impossible to keep ones emotions under check at the vicious, brazen incidents which have unravelled in Mumbai since 9.15 p.m. yesterday 26/11 ( details of timings and venues of attack in link ) . Under normal circumstances perhaps ‘coward’ wouldnt have featured in the title of the post.
Arguably the most extensive and devastating terrorist attack in India ever. The 20-25 ‘fidayeens’ (numbers vastly differ..some put it down to 15) as is reported on various channels arrived in Mumbai yesterday by ship on M.V Alfa which was Karachi bound, hopped on to small boats to disembark at the Sassoon Docks in Colaba ( heart of Mumbai) heavily armed and loaded with ammunition laden bags, unchecked and almost in complete freedom to let loose their reign of terror using weapons like AK47s and grenades.Latest reports suggest that the ship has been chased down by Naval helicopters and is presently under search.
Three hours into the early hours of Thursday the group of terrorists, in a well planned and meticulously detailed operation struck down innocents on the VT station, Oberoi and Taj group of hotels, among other random shootings at Leopold cafe the hub of tourists in Mumbai well known for its delectable cuisine and quaint air which attracted foreigners by the drove.
Hostages taken at the hotels and the fact that their main area of operation has been 5 star hotels and the cafe clearly indicates the mindset as intended to target tourists in an effort to hit out at the tourism industry . The fact that the Cricket league teams were meant to check in today as also the impending elections are details which may be noted.
As one surfed through channels greedily devouring every bit of information, to gauge the extent of harm and mayhem and also the intention and identity of the terrorists brought out in its wake rage and helplessness all at once. Just what are the intelligence agencies in India earning their livelihood on? The fact that a complete lapse of security on the entire coast is evident of the care a damn attitude.
Numbly one watched the utter despair on faces of those at the scene of action. They just didnt seem to have a clue as to what they had been just propelled into. Understandable but not if it takes more than a few minutes to gather your wits and get down to damage control. You cannot afford to wallow in dependency. Which is what was unfurling.
A badly injured resident of the Taj lay on the floor, while a group collected around, one of who checked his pulse and waited!! Jut simply waited!! Whatever happened to the Disaster management cell that was to have found its bearings with complete precision 2 years ago at the time of the Blasts? Werent they supposed to be geared up for an occasion such as this, well oiled, greased and operational and on to the rescue??
Meanwhile the terrorists brazenly played out their plan, uninhibitedly and with complete confidence. It seemed as if they had every move planned out, not just in action but also in reaction to what they knew the administration would employ. Its as if they had Mumbai on a platter to unleash their machinations on undisturbed and as if boastfully displaying their sophisticated modus operandi and precisive functioning. They exhibited their intensive study in the art of terrorism, paradoxically while simulataneously challenging the administration and their readiness and adroitness to deal with the situation.
Wonder where are those who claim ‘Me Mumbaikar’? Where are the zealots who could act in support to the police and army and prove just how much they loved Mumbai, honestly this time! Not anywhere in sight!!
Actions or rather inaction speaks louder than words!!
Hemant Karkare PI Vijay Salaskar
Tragically one had to digest the news of the death of ATS Commander Hemant Karkare. I saw the clipping yesterday when he arrived on the scene, calm, placid, confident and as if in complete control. He asked his subordinate for his helmet. Then one read that he had been shot dead with three bullets in his chest. Wish hed asked for a bullet proof vest instead. Surprised that it wasnt a part of his attire. He lead the operation into Taj and was gunned down. Now here is an officer along with the other three, including Sh Vijay Salaskar who one heartfully Says ” Salaam Sahib”.. You have died a martyr. You will not be forgotten.
Army arrived early this morning. Our Mubaikars gathered outside the Oberoi trident instictively, unanimously, equivocally burst into ” Bharat Mata Ki jai”..It was touching! This show of extreme confidence in our Jawans and the underlying emotion of retribution which looked all set to be accomplished, along with a full throated encouragement to our Bravehearts who were determined to go in and flush out the terrorists. Wonder which religion teaches killing as an act of bravery!!
One hopes for a detente between the opposition forces and the ruling party, If not now, then when? Get together, prove solidarity and banish the terrorists from our soil. External and internal alliances had led to this massive build up which resulted in this attack. Show them the door. Show us that you care! Care about what happens to India and Indians. Those innocents who lost their lives at Vt Station waiting for the train they never took. The chefs at Taj and other staff who were merely doing their job. Tourists who love India.
Give us an India we deserve, and India we have only dreamt of so far, where we live in freedom fearlessly. Giev us an India where each lives to realise his potential and in turn takes India up to realise hers. You have the Power. Deploy it. Or then live and die with the blood of innocents forever on your hands!!
PS: As of now 5.30pm the operation to flush out terrorists at the Taj and Oberoi is on. Army has been in since early afternoon for the Final assault. To see the portions of the Taj in flames is devastating..an iconic Hotel which holds memories and can boast of the best celebrations personally for me and for Mumbai in general. Night is descending and it may hinder activity.. advantage terrorists.
One terrorist has been captured at the Taj. He is reported to be Abu Ismail from Faridkot Pakistan, according to Times Now.
There are a bunch of terrorists who after the gunning at VT and Metro are roaming the streets of Mumbai, even as I write. The others holed up in Trident and Taj, still inflicting harm on whoever is available may have finally played themselves out, going by the escalating fire wrought by the army . The drama is yet to reach its climax although sporadic blasts are heard every twenty minutes or so and the injured are being constantly evacuated. Hostages still under threat, some in their respective rooms, wothout food and drink for almost 20 hours now.
Update: 7.30 pm..Hostages freed from trident and Taj. Number yet present in the hotels not known. meanwhile a tragic news. The general manager of Taj Mr. Karanveer Rang’s wife and three kids have been killed by the terrorists report channels. The drama isnt over yet !
Is India safe? Now what?
The sequential blasts in Mumbai couple of years ago had evoked a sense of outrage. One had poured out ones angst and sense of hopelessness in a post . Nestled somewhere was the dim ray of hope that perhaps I would be proven wrong. My fears would prove unfounded. I quote the words written then and it breaks ones spirit that those words seem relevant even today. Nothings changed.
“
“Lack of infrastructure, the constantly, growing multitudinous population, influx from other states, fluid statistics, all add to a picture of impending doom.It is as if we are on the brink of disaster. Spirit..for how long?? Mumbai, the financial capital has always been vulnerable and a soft target, in order to strike at the mind of India and get the sensex to tumble. So here we are sitting ducks, at the mercy of a weak intelligence and corrupt administrators, with our resilience, infallibility, stoic and strength, grit, bravery and whatever else our dear P.M. bestows on us.. ready.. for what? (btw the readers digest survey about mumbai being the rudest city goes limpingly redundant now, something I had mentioned in a comment in desicritics on the 11th as well)
Citizens ought to do this that and the other..ask not what your country can do for you..blah blah.. is all very well.. If anything, it was Mumbaikars who came together and help salvage a sitution when the administration fell apart. But can we wage a war against terrorism? Is that not the bounden duty of the state machinery to ensure safety for its citizens? Information is never forthcoming from these so called sleuths. One has to wallop it out of them? Dont we have a right to know just what is getting done towards further avoidance? What measures are under way?
Where is the guarantee that criminals will be indicted? There is not A SINGLE instance of a prisoner being penalised for blasts, in any of the past incidents..even from 1993. There has always been a loud proclamation of arrests, as evn this time and years later he is Freed for lack of evidence. The police only hang their heads down in shame or in speak out in defense, when questioned.
One has deliberately not written of the goriness, gut wrenching scenes of anguish and misery personally experienced, since it will only add to angst and feeling of destitution and solves nothing. But today what is needed is a demand for answers. To make the administration accountable and answerable. To voice disgust and protest at the lackadaisical manner that security and anti terrorist measures have been implemented or rather not implemented.
While we can show our tongue out to the terrorists and continue to pretend as if nothing has happened, let this not be the message that the Administration receives. Our confidence is flagging, fear is gaining foothold and hopelessness is slowly setting in. From the looks of it, seems it wil not be long before, INDIFFERENCE replaces concern, and apathy replaces sympathy.
The channels are gradually relinquishing their infatuation with blast news by now opting for spicier stories and interviews. In another week, 7/11 will be another day featuring in the History pages..mentioned with a polite tsk tsk ..and onto the next topic.
While the average citizen waits with bated breath for our blogs to be read by the powers who be..
Or a Superman to take over the reigns of Mumbai.”
This was two years ago….How different could it have been expatiated today?
Updated 5th January 2009: Media is rife with names. Names of those supposedly behind the siege . Most of these are names heard earlier as well. Intelligence agencies from US, India even Russia seem to corroborate on the zeroing in to four or five who are the masterminds of this attack. Pakistan dilly dallies on handing them over which in itself is indicative of the tacit understanding with them or even the complicity of the ISI and the Army with the leaders of the camps.
A must read..why Dawood Ibrahim will not be extradited, or for that matter, others like Nakhvi, Ibrahim as well.
Update 7th Jan 2009: Pakistani officials finally admit that Ajmal kasab is a Pakistani after the evidence dossier by India was sent to Pakistan. After the massive state of utter denial Pakistan had no option but to concede that the lone live terrorist captured is a Pakistani. Whilst the rest of the world had considered it a foregone conclusion, Pak took its own time, and with major reluctance and gracelessly were forced to admit the truth. It may have been more appropriate had the denial not been so vociferous and outspoken in the days following the attack. Pakistan suffers majorly from protocal disciplinary ethics. That they are disowning kasab and refuse to grant him any legal aid may also be noted.
Updated 9th Jan 09: Kasab made to say ‘ Jai Hind’ by jail authorities. Somehow this didnt go down well with me for the simple reason that we certainly dont require a Pakistani, a terrorist who has mercilessly massacred innocents remorselessly to then merely through lip service mouth ‘Jai Hind’.
This is a slogan that resounds with noble patriotic fervour. If someone is compelled, cajoled, to utter the words its senseless to the core. All it achieves is a slight embarassment for Kasab and a nudge wink joy for the officials but beyond that its pointless.
Of course Pakistan too must have and must be following the same procedure with our POW..but then that is pakistan, a terrorist state. We are India the land of the rishis and sages, wisdom and bravery. We can live without a tyrant mouthing ‘ Jai Hind’! It insults India.
Updated 13th Jan’09: Vinita Kamte, widow of martyr Ashok Kamte had to resort to becoming a sleuth to clear the false propoganda and ambiguity involving her late husbands actions on that fateful night. Deeptiman Tiwary brings you this poignant report.
Nothing can ever replace the loss of a husband for Vinita. But she had to simultaneously overcome her grief or perhaps keep it on hold till she personally investigated the events as they occurred that night since the authorities concerned seemed uninterested in a clarification even in the face of michievous, malafaide allegations flying around. A very very Brave Vinita Kamte.. Bravo!! A must read!
Update 24th January 2009: Obama has re infused us with faith in his leadersip and vision, promises of change and hope galore. Only a few days into his Prsidency and he has sent out a strong message to pakistan unlike his predecessor Bush who perhaps had his implicit alliance with Mush and nothing ever came out of namby pamby threats.
Two missile strikes targeting suspected terrorists hideouts inside Pakistan in the first few days of his presidency indicates that new US President Barack Obama is going to be tough on Islamabad, when it comes to the war against terror, media reports said.
Now that is what one means by ‘business’. Mush and Gilani have backtracked as expected..making funny sub human noises..detestible. The former admitting to Al Qaeda hideots in Pak and the latter announcing the need for quick action to do with India. Wonder if the threatend dossier from Pakiatan in response to ours will find its way here. ..ha
Sachiniti 
[…] Bomb Blasts Rock Mumbai Filed under: Blasts, India n Me, Most Read — Kaveetaa Kaul @ 6:42 pm Update: For November 26th 2008 terrorist attack read here. […]
Pingback by Bomb Blasts Rock Mumbai « Sachiniti — November 27, 2008 @ 7:25 pm |
“Then one read that he had been shot dead with three bullets in his chest. Wish hed asked for a bullet proof vest instead. Surprised that it wasnt a part of his attire. He lead the operation into Taj and was gunned down.”
Well said ! beats me…how did these guys go in for war without being properly dressed?
Comment by Krishnan — November 27, 2008 @ 9:01 pm |
This is an act of war. The concerned countries should be attacked and bombed immediately by India.
Comment by Sid — November 27, 2008 @ 9:18 pm |
Hi Krishnan,
It is shameful that our Police were actually facing nothing short of a war like situation dressed in civilian clothes. In fact it has been recently disclosed by one of the terrorists arrested that snaps of important officials were given to them with explicit instructions to target them. It is no wonder then that the ATS chief was shot at. Perhaps he might have escaped the assault had he been in bullet proof vests. All the same we should do all we can to keep his sacrifice and actions alive.
God knows we need real heroes to worship!
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — November 27, 2008 @ 11:21 pm |
Hi Sid,
I do understand your emotion and the basis of your comment. However if one is to lend credence to various International authorities who while expressing their solidarity with our cause also seemed to suggest that simply because the terrorists came from pakistan does not necessarily be that pakistan is directly involved. Just as the 9/11 attacks were traced to Germany or wherever.
Pakistan today is at best a functional anarchy. Various forces most of them militant and terrorism instigated warming their toes in the free fire offered since no modicum of control is operable presently.
One of the militants exposed that they had been under training for the past three months by the LeT which is clearly evident from the detailed plan in motion. Right from the topography of the area to the mappings of the hotel in complete scrutiny, the men in jeans have put up quite a fight.
Just about ten of the in three buildings, Taj, Oberois and Narimans with hundreds of army and marine foot soldiers in hot pursuit, yet neither has their ammunition depleted nor their spirit. It is obvious that they were on a suicide mission.
Terrorism cannot be rooted out because of the sheer nature of its existence. But what can be effectively dealt with is politicising the issue for petty personal gains or then reducing he event into ground zero level in maybe a month or two. As Also a sincere attempt to create disaster management cells.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — November 27, 2008 @ 11:32 pm |
My condolences to those who died in this cowardly act. And also my humble salutes to the heroes, who fought and did the supreme sacrifice, to pull India out of one of the worst terror situations. But the question which arises from this situation is Can India save its citizens from getting blown up on roads/trains or mowed down by AK-47 bullets.. This question has been raised before also but now unfortunately this question is being asked with more force.. Looking at the usual govt. reaction to the incident, i fear that the answer is a big NO… Agreed that pakistan is in a bad shape and india cannot do much about it. But still if the relation with pakistan is going to be maintained at the cost of lives of our brothers and sisters then it is most unfortunate.. When we have got concrete evidence of pak’s involvement then the least thing which we can do is call back our ambassador back and tell pakistan, hand over dawood or whoever is involved and then only our ambassador will resume office. If we cannot act now also then it wouldn’t be too much to say that India is also on the way to anarchy and not to the much hyped “superpower” status.. We must also not forget that if the govt. does not act then we are in the process of creating more purohits, who would prefer to settle scores on streets rather than diplomatic missions and that would be a disaster in making for India.. So as you have rightly said all parties should leave behind their narrow minded attitudes and come together and find a way out..
Comment by Rajeev — November 28, 2008 @ 10:47 pm |
Rajeev. I agree quite a bit with your comment. Pakistans turnaround has come as a complete surprise or am i being naive ? I guess it was expected . We ought to learn by now that when Pakistan offers to “send its ISI chief most willingly” in collaborating on the intelligence manoevures it is bound to be recanted within a matter of hours. Goes to prove just how much or to what degree a democracy it is and to what extent is controlled by the military/ISI.
Presently I am ashamed at the picture we have presented to the world on every count. Our security and intelligence lapses. the pathetic state of our police force (referring to the facilities afforded) and the humiliation of our tourists being first hand witness to how simple it was in creating mayhem in a matter of minutes.
I wish fervently wish we as a nation could get together and refuse to vote unless and until the politicos provided us with a blueprint of the plan they have to secure our borders and coastlines and strengthen our crisis management infrastructure to appreciable levels.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — November 29, 2008 @ 10:26 pm |
Glad I found this site. Excellent content here – keep up the good work!
Comment by Peace of Mind in 20 — November 30, 2008 @ 12:27 am |
Kaveetaa,
The idea of refusal of voting is a way but again do you think it will work? .. I am feeling a sense of outrage by the turn of events, you will be having similar feelings.. I am sure most of the netizens and tv viewers are feeling the same.. But counting everyone we really dont know how much of population all these represent.it may be 20% – 30% or max 40% .. I am sure its not beyond that.. It is the remaining 60% of population which i feel dont understand the gravity of these events.. They dont understand because they have got more pressing issues at their hand rather than national security.. It is these 60% which is giving the confidence to the corrupt and inefficient politicians that they are safe.. Who cares until they are getting elected. In fact the way India’s ministers are talking and behaving and also after looking at their past.. their intentions are getting pretty much clear..They are in a state of denial and they dont intend to do much except to do some lip service and this is being done to take care of electoral equations.. So i feel the only way out is everyone in that 40% segment should vote and teach a lesson to the rulers. Unless that happens things are not going to improve.. Until national security becomes a vote bank issue.. i dont think anything is going to change..
Shobha de has appropriately expressed common man’s feeling in this video on youtube..
Comment by Rajeev — November 30, 2008 @ 1:36 am |
Rajeev,
Sense of outrage is mildly put. One is still to dissect who the ire is directed against..the ultras or politicians…IMHO the latter. The former were our enemies but the politicos had been voted into power for the sole purpose of governance and protection! Look where they have brought India to.
The media rajeev can play a crucial role in shaping public opinion even that of the 60% you say may not be directly concerned with security issues. Although going by what i personally witnessed, the average Indian today has sworn revenge and is ready to lambast a politician for the cause of betrayal.You should have seen the manner in which they cheered the NSGs before and after the operation. They werent just dumb bystanders but extremely proactive.
Also please consider. The vote is our only tool. If we dont use it as leverage what do we do?
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — November 30, 2008 @ 7:34 pm |
Kaveetaa ji,
It is well said “Politics is the Last Resort of all Scoundrels”. There is no yardstick required to be a NETA. Unless and until a strong revolution is not raised, they will continue to play with our votes and full their pockets with misuse of power.
There should be certain rules implied by the Election Commission before granting them nomination. Unfortunately they are left scott free.
It should be compulsory for them to declare their ancestarial properties and all personal assets.
They should have a good personal track record of Social services done.
They should have proper education and past experience under a senior NETA.
They should not have more than 2/3 children.
They should have married their Daughters to S.C. & S.T.
One or two of their Sons must be with Paramilitary forces.
With the change of Party before 5 years their nomination be cancelled.
They should be accountable for the Foreign trips & progress achieved in their tenure.
No Red Light black glasses cars to be allowed to them, Janta’s sevak should be with masses.
If found guilty on any account of corruption they should be handed over to the public for their welfare with their Life time cancellation.
It should be mandatory for them to donate their eyes and all body organs for janta janardan after their demise.
They should not be at all allowed to interfere with Police & Judiciary.
Unless some strict measures are not adopted we will be bound to have the alikes of Lalu Prasad (famous for Chara Ghotala), Mulayam Singh (famous for feilding criminals like Mukhtar Ansari,Ateeq Ahmed, Shahabuddin, Bandit Dacoit Phoolan Devi, Amarmani Tripathy, Pappu Yadav), Amar Singh (famous for Dalali), Bahenji Mayawati, Angutha Chaap Rabri, Goldmine Jaylalita, Shivraj Patil, R.R.Patil, Vilasrao Deshmukh, etc etc and the line goes endless…….
Reg:- BOMBAY BLASTS
Very simple – EYE FOR AN EYE. Just follow the steps of U.S.A. after 9/11 attaks.The picture would have been diffrent if we had a Lal Bahadur Shastry or an Indira Gadhi as a Prime Minister today. What can be expected from a weak puppet that works through a Remote Control ?
The administration and public emotions are in worst state today. The rich can afford to throw a Crore for a Sixer by Sachin or Dhoni but who cares for the Real Heros – The Police Personals, The Fire Personals, The Commandos, who risked & sacrificed their lives. A mere Hundreds of rupees increment to them is enough to raise the eyebrows of everhungry politicians.
Politicians know very well that public memory is short lived and they would do their own as usual. Only GOD can save the country if HE showers us enough strength to use owr minds for a GREAT REVOLUTION.
Comment by Anand Berry — November 30, 2008 @ 9:14 pm |
Anand..totally agree. However keeping to the tenets of a democracy, there are some provisions which speak of various freedoms. My point is that no matter the utter hopelessness of the current lot if there were alternatives India ought to vote for those. these would automatically get sidelined.
Tragedy is that that the bulk of our voting is from the gullible masses who can be easily swayed by cash and kind if not by the ever powerful jaati biradari tag.had it not been for this the likes of the ones you mention would have never been successful in achieving even a darshan of the chair.
Immediate positive action to create disaster management cells, crisis facilitators should be insisted upon. All efforts should be made to not let the politicians off the hook. if Shivraj patil has been asked to resign today is if anything a small victory for the power of the masses or why wasnt it a ritual all through the earlier attacks?
Indias intelligentsia, masses and classes has been shaken up. All that is needed is to persist at it intensively and continuously.We have to sustain our outrage and passion and ensure that it finds some direction. Each in his own way should work towards the goal.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — November 30, 2008 @ 9:33 pm |
Kaveetaa,
Agreed media plays a crucial role in formation of opinion and the right to vote should be exercised cautiously.. But as you have mentioned above, again till votes are going to get cast on the basis of money and kind.. we wont have the fortune to get representatives who can think for the country.. In fact it looks like the current regime is counting on those types of vote only to get elected.. But apart from the domestic measures like forming federal agency for fighting terror etc.. the current weak regime ahould atleast do something to hit pakistan also.. I think joint anti terror mechanism with them was a joke.. the pakistanis(specially the army) never considered India as their friend..And we can clearly see that democracy there is just for name sake and its their army and ISI who are still calling the shots.. So this Joint anti terror mechanisms should be dissolved.. and secondly we should seriously start thinking of taking some commando action on their terror training camps etc.. or a Mossad style operation to nab dawood ibrahim(Our friendship with israel is growing so they will surely help us in that).. just one or two such incidents would deter them from doing such bold (mis)adventures in future..
But even after all these it will take a long time for the world also to get confidence on India’s capabilities.. The scenes of mumbai terror, the handling, the reaction of our govt.. were shown live here in USA and also it was reported as headlines in their prominent newspapers so one can imagine what impression of india all this must have created.. Foreign govts have already started issuing warnings to their citizens for travel to mumbai..I sincerely feel if by our inaction or our misfortune if one more such incident happens.. then it may hit us badly economically too..
Comment by Rajeev — November 30, 2008 @ 11:14 pm |
The media coverage can be rated as follows
First , one must congratulate Times now and Times of India , for reporting much better than others. cnn.ibn was shit. NDTV was deep shit. Outlookindia was wordless and probably in deep shock. The red thread tied to the wrists to the picture shown in this caption made cnn.ibn , ndtv and outlookindia jump into conclusions. Here again Times of india came trumps with perfect analysis. The Kolis wear the red thread it seems and Times was right on dot in explaining this. Even the revalations of the above alive photo , still alive person has been reported in detail by times of india as to how they planned and came here.
The above photograph taken by Sebastian DSouza of Mumbai Mirror has been shown in all world TV channels ( according to my friends overseas), with the assertion by the channels that this man is a Pakistani.
Here is the link for Sebastian DeSouza.
( Sent by a friend)
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/article14086308.ece
India has to do what Mrs Gandhi did pre 1971 war( not to go for war now). She campaigned with her govt all over the western world, before launching into the 1971 war. She took the world into confidence. Now India has got all solid evidence , they have to send emissaries all over the world to reeducate and inform. This can be done. They have to raise the issue in UN of violation of UN code as a citizen of another country has launched into another countries territory. The other party will say it is security lapse by India, but the bottom line is that they are citizens of that country. The West has been not been a great supporter of India since Pakistan is its creation. The pampering and cuddling by the West is not mystery as it their bachha. They gain a lot by doing this. One was vey dissappointed by the way , some western journalists have written about this Mumbai Mayhem. In fact , tears came to my eyes , when some have written in a very naive manner. But one by Peter Cockburn is interesting, atleast Ek Gora ne sahi likha.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/patrick-cockburn-pakistan-is-the-root-of-the-problem-14086314.html
The last lines from the above article from Ahmed Rashid’s book, Descent into Chaos ( a gifted and responsble Pakistani) is very telling. Please read these lines. All must read.
Once again before au revoir with this article
Times has come up with ten point suggestion to Home Minister.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/TOIs_10-point_security_agenda_for_the_Home_Minister/articleshow/3777840.cms
We all must pray well to the Lord as to why He is having Ananthasayana even now and why not ”
Pratranam Sadhunam, Vinascha Dushkritam, Dharma Sans…….Sambhavami Yuge Yuge”
Comment by gajanan — December 1, 2008 @ 9:38 am |
Sorry it is Patrick Cockburn not Peter as mentioned in the earlier posting.
Comment by gajanan — December 1, 2008 @ 11:48 am |
Kav
My prayers are with you, and all Bombayites, at this moment of immense tragedy.
Some food for thoughts. Please read the Chris Hedges article below.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21367.htm
Confronting the Terrorist Within
By Chris Hedges
December 01, 2008 “Truthdig” — – The Hindu-Muslim communal violence that led to the attacks in Mumbai, as well as the warnings that the New York City transit system may have been targeted by al-Qaida, are one form of terrorism. There are other forms.
The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, when viewed from the receiving end, are state-sponsored acts of terrorism. These wars defy every ethical and legal code that seek to determine when a nation can wage war, from Just War Theory to the statutes of international law largely put into place by the United States after World War II. These wars are criminal wars of aggression. They have left hundreds of thousands of people, who never took up arms against us, dead and seen millions driven from their homes. We have no right as a nation to debate the terms of these occupations. And an Afghan villager, burying members of his family’s wedding party after an American airstrike, understands in a way we often do not that terrorist attacks can also be unleashed from the arsenals of an imperial power.
Barack Obama’s decision to increase troop levels in Afghanistan and leave behind tens of thousands of soldiers and Marines in Iraq—he promises only to withdraw combat brigades—is a failure to rescue us from the status of a rogue nation. It codifies Bush’s “war on terror.” And the continuation of these wars will corrupt and degrade our nation just as the long and brutal occupation of Gaza and the West Bank has corrupted and degraded Israel. George W. Bush has handed Barack Obama a poisoned apple. Obama has bitten it.
The invasions and occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq were our response to feelings of vulnerability and collective humiliation after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. They were a way to exorcise through reciprocal violence what had been done to us.
Collective humiliation is also the driving force behind al-Qaida and most terrorist groups. Osama bin Laden cites the Sykes-Picot Agreement, which led to the carving up of the Ottoman Empire, as the beginning of Arab humiliation. He attacks the agreement for dividing the Muslim world into “fragments.” He rails against the presence of American troops on the soil of his native Saudi Arabia. The dark motivations of Islamic extremists mirror our own.
Robert Pape in “Dying to Win: The Strategic Logic of Suicide Terrorism,” found that most suicide bombers are members of communities that feel humiliated by genuine or perceived occupation. Almost every major suicide-terrorist campaign—over 95 percent—carried out attacks to drive out an occupying power. This was true in Lebanon, Sri Lanka, Chechnya and Kashmir, as well as Israel and the Palestinian territories. The large number of Saudis among the 9/11 hijackers appears to support this finding.
A militant who phoned an Indian TV station from the Jewish center in Mumbai during the recent siege offered to talk with the government for the release of hostages. He complained about army abuses in Kashmir, where ruthless violence has been used to crush a Muslim insurgency. “Ask the government to talk to us and we will release the hostages,” he said, speaking in Urdu with what sounded like a Kashmiri accent.
“Are you aware how many people have been killed in Kashmir? Are you aware how your army has killed Muslims? Are you aware how many of them have been killed in Kashmir this week?” he asked.
Terrorists, many of whom come from the middle class, support acts of indiscriminate violence not because of direct, personal affronts to their dignity, but more often for lofty, abstract ideas of national, ethnic or religious pride and the establishment of a utopian, harmonious world purged of evil. The longer the United States occupies Afghanistan and Iraq, the more these feelings of collective humiliation are aggravated and the greater the number of jihadists willing to attack American targets.
We have had tens of thousands of troops stationed in the Middle East since 1990 when Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. The presence of these troops is the main appeal, along with the abuse meted out to the Palestinians by Israel, of bin Laden and al-Qaida. Terrorism, as Pape wrote, “is not a supply-limited phenomenon where there are just a few hundred around the world willing to do it because they are religious fanatics. It is a demand-driven phenomenon. That is, it is driven by the presence of foreign forces on the territory that the terrorists view as their homeland. The operation in Iraq has stimulated suicide terrorism and has given suicide terrorism a new lease on life.”
The decision by the incoming Obama administration to embrace an undefined, amorphous “war on terror” will keep us locked in a war without end. This war has no clear definition of victory, unless victory means the death or capture of every terrorist on earth—an impossibility. It is a frightening death spiral. It feeds on itself. The concept of a “war on terror” is no less apocalyptic or world-purifying than the dreams and fantasies of terrorist groups like al-Qaida.
The vain effort to purify the world through force is always self-defeating. Those who insist that the world can be molded into their vision are the most susceptible to violence as antidote. The more uncertainty, fear and reality impinge on this utopian vision, the more strident, absolutist and aggressive are those who call for the eradication of “the enemy.” Immanuel Kant called absolute moral imperatives that are used to carry out immoral acts “a radical evil.” He wrote that this kind of evil was always a form of unadulterated self-love. It was the worst type of self-deception. It provided a moral façade for terror and murder. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are a “radical evil.”
The tactic of suicide bombing, equated by many in the United States with Islam, did not arise from the Muslim world. It had its roots in radical Western ideologies, especially Leninism, not religion. And it was the Tamil Tigers, a Marxist group that draws its support from the Hindu families of the Tamil regions of Sri Lanka, who invented the suicide vest for their May 1991 suicide assassination of Rajiv Ghandi.
Suicide bombing is what you do when you do not have artillery or planes or missiles and you want to create maximum terror for an occupying power. It was used by secular anarchists in the 19th and early 20th centuries, who bequeathed to us the first version of the car bomb—a horse-drawn wagon laden with explosives that was ignited on Sept. 16, 1920, on Wall Street. The attack was carried out by an Italian immigrant named Mario Buda in protest over the arrest of the anarchists Sacco and Vanzetti. It left 40 people dead and wounded more than 200.
Suicide bombing was adopted later by Hezbollah, al-Qaida and Hamas. But even in the Middle East, suicide bombing is not restricted to Muslims. In Lebanon, during the attacks in the 1980s against French, American and Israeli targets, only eight suicide bombings were carried out by Islamic fundamentalists. Twenty-seven were the work of communists and socialists. Christians were responsible for three.
The dehumanization of Muslims and the willful ignorance of the traditions and culture of the Islamic world reflect our nation’s disdain for self-reflection and self-examination. It allows us to exalt in the illusion of our own moral and cultural superiority. The world is far more complex than our childish vision of good and evil. We as a nation and a culture have no monopoly on virtue. We carry within us the same propensities for terror as those we oppose.
The Muslim Indian Emperor Akbar at the end of the 16th century filled his court with philosophers, mystics and religious scholars, including Sunni, Sufi and Shiite Muslims, Hindu followers of Shiva and Vishnu, as well as atheists, Christians, Jains, Jews, Buddhists and Zoroastrians. They debated ethics and belief. Akbar was one of the great champions of religious dialogue and tolerance. He forbade any person to be discriminated against on the basis of belief. He declared that everyone was free to follow any religion. His enlightened rule took place as the Inquisition was at its height in Spain and Portugal, and in Rome the philosopher Giordano Bruno was being burnt at the stake in Campo de’ Fiori for heresy.
Tolerance, as well as religious and political plurality, is not exclusive to Western culture. The Judeo-Christian tradition was born and came to life in the Middle East. Its intellectual and religious beliefs were cultivated and formed in cities such as Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria and Constantinople. Many of the greatest tenets of Western civilization, as is true with Islam and Buddhism, are Eastern in origin. Our concept of the rule of law and freedom of expression, the invention of printing, paper, the book, as well as the translation and dissemination of the classical Greek philosophers, algebra, geometry and universities were given to us by the Islamic world. The first law code was invented by the ancient Iraqi ruler Hammurabi. One of the first known legal protections of basic freedoms and equality was promulgated in the third century B.C. by the Buddhist Indian Emperor Ashoka. And, unlike Aristotle, he insisted on equal rights for women and slaves.
The East and the West do not have separate, competing value systems. We do not treat life with greater sanctity than those we belittle. There are aged survivors in Hiroshima and Nagasaki who can tell us something about our high moral values and passionate concern for innocent human life, about our own acts of terrorism. Eastern and Western traditions have within them varied ethical systems, some of which are repugnant and some of which are worth emulating. To hold up the highest ideals of our own culture and to deny that these great ideals exist in other cultures, especially Eastern cultures, is made possible only by historical and cultural illiteracy.
The civilization we champion and promote as superior is, in fact, a product of the fusion of traditions and beliefs of the Orient and the Occident. We advance morally and intellectually when we cross these cultural lines, when we use the lens of other cultures to examine our own. The remains of villages destroyed by our bombs, the dead killed from our munitions, leave us too with bloody hands. We can build a new ethic only when we face our complicity in the cycle of violence and terror.
The fantasy of an enlightened West that spreads civilization to a savage world of religious fanatics is not supported by history. The worst genocides and slaughters of the last century were perpetrated by highly industrialized nations. Muslims, including Saddam Hussein’s brutal regime, have a long way to go before they reach the body count of the secular regimes of the Nazis, the Soviet Union or the Chinese communists. It was, in fact, the Muslim-led government in Bosnia that protected minorities during the war while the Serbian Orthodox Christians carried out mass executions, campaigns of genocide and ethnic cleansing that left 250,000 dead.
Those who externalize evil and seek to eradicate that evil through violence lose touch with their own humanity and the humanity of others. They cannot make moral distinctions. They are blind to their own moral corruption. In the name of civilization and high ideals, in the name of reason and science, they become monsters. We will never free ourselves from the self-delusion of the “war on terror” until we first vanquish the terrorist within.
Chris Hedges was Middle East bureau chief for The New York Times. His Truthdig column appears on Mondays.
Comment by Shaan Khan — December 2, 2008 @ 8:45 pm |
Hi all..have gone through the wonderful comments. Need to reply detailedly. Have just been caught up most part yesterday at the rallies. Today two close friends who were operated for cancer.. So am going to see them. Why is life so tough. I guess Buddha asked the same question struggled for his enlightenment and achieved Nirvana. We are yet way off!
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 4, 2008 @ 11:47 am |
Rajeev “apart from the domestic measures like forming federal agency for fighting terror etc.. the current weak regime ahould atleast do something to hit pakistan also”
If you read my update today I have put forward my pov. Pakistan should be dealt with globally, since the ‘actors’ in this attack may not be State players but factions. Nonetheless pakistans protectionist approach give away their inner intention of not handing over the offenders, including D company. If this war on India has affected most countries which matter like Israel and US we can expect a collective reproach which to my mind will compel The ISI and the Army to give up their passion for aggression across the border. Zardari and gang are as we all know at best titular heads presently victims to the atrocites of the same gangs, or ta least that is what seems projected by the JW Marriott blast.Till the ideology behind terrorism is not dealt afatal blow, little can come out of war with Pakistan except a further loss of lives of our brave soldiers and depletion of resources, which may prove of course highly lucrative to the US.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 5, 2008 @ 2:56 pm |
Gajanan ji.. Agree on all counts. Sorry have not been able to read through the links posted by you. Will do so soon.
“India has to do what Mrs Gandhi did pre 1971 war( not to go for war now). She campaigned with her govt all over the western world, before launching into the 1971 war. She took the world into confidence”
This is exactly what i mean. This is a wise, sagacious, visionary poa.Today we have the world with us. i received an email from a Russian editor asking me to write for her publication after she saw on Tv what was happening in Mumbai. One has to insensitive and apathetic to a zero degree not to be moved by the incident and also be unknowing as to who the perpetrators are. We have to strengthen our country across the borders and coasts. This is fundamental.
What is highly stirring as of now is the alacrity with which heads rolled, Congress in a last ditch effort to save face has realised the precariousness of its future, Not that BJP in power would have spelt a different outcome, yet it si clear that the present GOvt was most ineffective. RR Patil deployed over a thousand Police Inspectors daily to ensure that beer bars closed at 11.30.. he objected to bar girls dancing and uncaring of the dance of death the ultras were ready with! Atrocious!
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 5, 2008 @ 3:04 pm |
Shaan.. Read the quote. I would not like to delve into the causes for terrorism and all of that frankly. Its not of import on a priority basis. Also let me be clear on my stand. I would not agree with anyone who prefers to look into the psyche of a terrorist. Do we care to analyse those mentally challenged? No we take them to be of unsound mind. To me terrorists are the same.. they are aberrations of nature. Lets leave it at that.
Nothing, no one, no event, no cause can justify the inhuman killing of innocents of the scale we have seen in Bombay. Perhaps you should read the details of the cruelty inflicted on hostages in Taj, Oberoi! Its spine chilling and so debauche that I dont wish to repeat what I have read.
If terrorism is here to stay..so be it!! We will secure India. But damn me if I will bother to investigate just what has led to these psychopaths flocking together to vent their frustrations on the world. let them do their worst… we will see how they will not face the end they have this time.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 5, 2008 @ 3:18 pm |
Shaan..if you care to read..do so pl
http://www.rediff.com/news/2008/dec/05mumterror-muslims-have-gained-nothing-from-terrorism.htm
A Maulanas reaction to the terror attacks!Brilliant!
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 5, 2008 @ 4:41 pm |
Kav
I have fond memories of the Taj. Taj was part of my former life. Just a month ago after having Berry Pulaw at Britania, I was sipping coffee at the Taj. Yes I feel very devastated. But I KNOW that no nation has ever won anything by force. Just like anti-biotics can kill a virus yet not cure a person, force too can provide temporary relief but never really have a permanent effect.
Intoxicated by force and strength, USA is going bankrupt. Likewise Israel’s struggle over the years have become worse not better. Fortunately for Israel, it can pass its expense onto the US tax payers. But what about India ? If we go on this road, a road that has never produced the desired result, who will bear India’s expense ? Hence, I would prefer that rather than go for a quick fix, India takes away the very cause of these issues. Yes it would be very advisable to look deep inside all heads to see what is going on.
Honestly, at present I am not very sure who is responsible for this attack. I know what the government is saying, but I live in a country whose government (more honest than all other governments in the world) said that there was definitely WMD in Iraq and on that basis went to war. Unfortunately for all those that died there was no such WMD in Iraq. Hence even at the expense of saying something that you may not want to hear, I would say wait and watch, don’t just believe what is being said. Always look for loose ends. The things that bother me the most are the following:
1. How can just 10/12 terrorist cause so much damage in so many locations?
2. How did most of the terrorist get their face so mutilated that they cannot be identified? History suggests that when that happens (i.e face mutilations) there is some sort of a cover-up (See French/Algerian struggle for more details ).
3. How did the terrorist know where to find the ATS leader who was investigating the Right Wing Hindu Fundamentalist Group
4. Generally in any crime, the person or people who have the most to gain are considered as the prime suspects. This horrible attack will most likely topple Congress and bring BJP to power. Likewise this evil attack will once and for all squash the game changer investigation of the Right Wing Hindu Fundamentalist Groups by ATS. How come no one is looking into this angle. Look at it this way, would not everyone be surprised IF given all the history of violence in India, if the Muslim groups had not been considered as the prime suspect ?
5. If Pakistan is behind all this then why did they do this in a manner that would provoke US, UK and Israel. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose by provoking US, UK and Israel. It would make more sense for them to limit their exposure just to India. No strategist would make such a major blunder. On the other hand it appears that someone is desperately trying to provoke US, UK & Israel to take action against Pakistan.
6. Finally this talk of Coke and LSD in the blood of the terrorist does not sit well. If these guys are religious nutcases than I would expect a “Kalima” on their lips rather than Coke and LSD in their blood. No “religious” Muslim would inject himself with Coke and LSD just before his imminent death.
Maybe I am cynical, but one should look at all loose ends, one should wait and watch. There is more to this than meets the eye.
Comment by Shaan Khan — December 5, 2008 @ 9:22 pm |
Once Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose had said that India better be ruled by Dictatorship. Now it seems he siad right.
Look how todays Politicians are behaving. These R.R.Patil, Deshmukh,Lalu, Mulayam, Amar Singh, Mayawati, Jaylalita, Sharad Yadav, Sharad Pawar, Sheila Dikshit, Narayan Rane, Shivraj Patil,etc etc.they all want “Z PLUS” security cover at the cost of lives of comman person. It seems politicians are hand in glove with terrorists. Politicians and Terrorists both survive on each other. Only comman man gets killed. Kaash! Is Attack Mein Neta Maare Gaye Hote! Politicians are becoming worse and hopeless day by day. Learning from the past happenings NOTHING can be expected from them. JO DARR GAYA SAMJHO MARR GAYA. Countrymen are looking for the 3 Military Chiefs to come togather and take attaks on Pak Terror Camps without delay. Let Hindustan & Pakistan again become one India. Enough is Enough. Time has come Politicians & Celebrities share their “Z PLUS Security” with countrymen.
Where are Lalu, Mulayam & Amar who defended Afzal Guru abiding Supreme Court’s verdict. Who knows if tomarrow someone may defend Kasuv also, or again Kandhar type happening occurs and he gets spared in return of hostages. Had this attack been on China or U.S.A. story would have been diffrent. Did U.S.A. wait or consult anyone after 9/11 attacks ? Today world sympathy is with India, emotions are very high and we should not miss or experiment on this opportunity. Let Pak entertain & welfare their 20 JIJAS, come what may Military should take reins and attack on Pak terror camps.No Arrests-No Court Trials-No Bails-No Appeals-Simply SHOOT at Sight. Eye for an Eye is the simple funda for teror.I would congratulate Mr Arnab Goswami for exposing and doing excellent work through TIMES NOW. We cant risk our lives on Politicians.
POLITICIANS & TERRORISTS ARE “BHAI – BHAI”
Comment by Anand Berry — December 5, 2008 @ 10:01 pm |
Are Mumbai attacks a chance for peace?
Guest columnist Ahmed Rashid in Lahore argues that rising tension between India and Pakistan over the Mumbai attacks might provide the two countries with an opportunity to extract a more lasting peace.
If Lashkar-e-Toiba is indeed responsible for the attacks – as Indian authorities claim and Pakistan denies – it will be the second time that the group has single-handedly put the two countries on a war footing. In 2002 each mobilised one million men for nearly a year after Lashkar attacked the Indian parliament.
The attacks have led to rising public anger in India against Pakistan and right wing Pakistani jingoism against India, in which some have even called on the moderate President Asif Ali Zardari to go to war.
When the Pakistan army finally stopped allowing Pakistan-based militant groups from infiltrating into Indian-administered Kashmir in 2004, groups like Lashkar, Jaish-e-Mohammed and Harkat-ul Mujheddin splintered and fragmented.
Besieged
Some militants went home, others got jobs or stayed in camps in the mountains.
However the youngest and most radicalised fighters joined up with al-Qaeda and the Pakistani and Afghan Taleban in the mountains of Pakistan’s tribal areas on the border with Afghanistan.
They embraced the global jihad to fight US troops in Afghanistan and Iraq and later attacked the Pakistan government and army as the Pakistani Taleban developed their own political agenda to seize power.
The group that attacked Mumbai may well include some Pakistanis, but it is more likely to be an international terrorist force put together by al-Qaeda and the Pakistani Taleban, who are besieged by the Pakistan army on one side and a rain of missiles being launched by US forces in Afghanistan against their hideouts on the other.
Al-Qaeda is looking for some relief and a diversion.
What better way to do so than by provoking the two old enemies – India and Pakistan – with a terrorist attack that diverts attention away from the tribal areas?
Such a move would force Pakistani troops back to the Indian border while simultaneously pre-occupying US and Nato countries in hectic diplomacy to prevent the region exploding.
A diversion such as this would preserve extremist sanctuaries along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border and would provide militants with a much needed respite – especially considering that in the next few months President-elect Barak Obama is due to send an additional 20,000 US troops to Afghanistan, backed by more Nato troops.
Unfounded
This strategic diversion ploy for the sake of al-Qaeda and its surrogates is the principle motive behind the Mumbai terrorist attacks.
It worked well in 2002 when the Pakistan army moved away from the Afghan border to meet the Indian mobilisation, thereby allowing al-Qaeda and the Afghan Taleban to escape from Afghanistan and consolidate their positions in the tribal areas.
If the two countries now mobilise their forces against one another they will be walking straight into the trap laid for them by al-Qaeda.
Charges that the Pakistan government, army or its Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) were behind the attack appear unfounded.
Pakistan can hardly contemplate a rise in tensions with India when it is beset by a monumental economic crisis, insurgencies in Balochistan and in North West Frontier Province, rising violence in Karachi and one-third of the country out of control of any constitutional authority.
Certainly Pakistan is not blameless. The army and its former military ruler President Pervez Musharraf must be faulted for refusing after 2004 to properly demobilise Kashmiri militant groups and being so reluctant to deal with the insurgency in the tribal areas. It was not until August when the army finally began a sustained offensive there.
And despite Musharraf’s own peace overtures to India after 2004, the army itself has been slow to make the strategic shift from seeing India as the primary threat. It has taken time to understand that local extremists now pose a far greater danger.
As the militants working under the umbrella of al-Qaeda have targeted the army in the mountains and in its cantonments, the army has retaliated but it has been slow and late in doing so.
If India and Pakistan can understand that they are both victims of a strategic diversion by al-Qaeda and if international mediation can help deepen that understanding, then there is perhaps a greater opportunity for the two countries to address the conflicts that have bedevilled their relationship for 60 years – Kashmir and other lesser issues.
It will certainly be difficult for the two countries to walk away from the brink. India has a weak government whose counter-terrorism policies have been a failure and which faces an election in the next six months. The Indian public and media are demanding revenge – not co-operation with Islamabad.
Pakistan also has a weak government that is still trying to set parameters of co-operation with an army which dominates foreign and strategic policy and controls the ISI, the most powerful political entity in the country.
Pakistan’s other problems could well overwhelm the government – a troops mobilisation is the last thing it needs.
To turn the possibility of war into the possibility of peace, the leadership of both countries need to show statesmanship, determination and authority even if they have to defy the public mood in their respective countries to do so.
Ahmed Rashid is the author of the recently published Descent into Chaos: How the war against Islamic extremism is being lost in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Central Asia.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/south_asia/7764475.stm
Comment by Shaan Khan — December 5, 2008 @ 11:44 pm |
Shaan,
Read through your bigggg post.. I can’t write this much -) .. Had the mumbai incidents totally linked to Al qaeda then would have agreed with your points that it is better to have peace with pakistan.. But leave alone the funda of al qaeda and stateless actors theory, it has been established that all the terrorists were from pakistan.. on top of it, pakistan is refusing to hand over dawood also who is an indian criminal and who is the main cospirator for the 1993 blasts… Alongwith dawood, Lashkar e toiba’s hafeez sayed.. he doesn’t roam in mountains of pak-afghan border.. He lives and plans terror activities from Islamabad and rawalpindi which are their major cities… The reluctance of pakistan to act against these guys also clearly shows their attitude. I am not for war or troop mobilization , as that wont serve much purpose..but its high time pakistan shows some seriously and cooperate with India.. We should remember that we are not asking pak to search for laden or zawahari whose whereabouts are totally unknown.. we dont operate in smoke them out mode .. I see your arguements point to a direction that Pakistan needs India more than India does.. It may be true but as a nation India is also obliged to protect its citizens..Its a different issue that india’s politicians dont follow/understand this obligation.. i feel govt. should do everything in its capacity to catch the real culprits and make them stand in a trial. If the culprits are from pakistan isi, which looks the case. then we need to take punitive measures against the “rogue” state called pakistan..
Comment by Rajeev — December 6, 2008 @ 10:01 am |
I just have one thing to say when I read the headlines in the press and see the live coverage in the media on these terror attacks – we Mumbaikars and the nation as a whole have become numb to these atrocities… My heart goes out to the innocent victims of this senseless violence. In the largest democracy, we are so inept that we cannot elect politicians who are less regional and more Indian, who put the country and its people before their individual gain. How many times will we hearr, after every terror strike, that the Center and the State had prior information on the attacks but did NOTHING about it… it is a shameful that the terrorists who attacked our parliament and were caught and convicted to the death sentence by the highest court in the country are still alive just because the politicians want to appease a certain community. One can just hope and pray that good sense prevails and we wake up to realise that enough is enough!
Comment by Sanghamitra — December 11, 2008 @ 11:31 pm |
aap kaise ho!!
i am writing after such a long long time..hv been busy with classes, lectures and courseworks, how hv u been?? hope everythings ok,
i hvnt been finding a proper window to write for the last couple of days, and now that christmas holidays are on, here i am back to blogging,
i have changed the blog design, please do check it out, and comments are appreciated.
i have also tried putting my ‘first sketch on oks’, a pretty scary one, ..not for the faint hearted ..lol…links for both of them are below…
seasons greetings for the holidays, and may the new year bring lotsa joy and happiness in our lives…
http://www.oneknightstands.net/my-first-sketch-on-oks-ryuk-deathnote/
http://www.oneknightstands.net
Cheers!
Sujoy
Comment by Sujoy — December 15, 2008 @ 9:44 am |
Hey guys..just give me a day..shall get back on all the varied albeit thought provoking and s’times provoking ( Shaan ) comments.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 15, 2008 @ 8:40 pm |
Shaan..there is NO Cause to the wrath of terrorists. I dont believe in justification, logicalising mass murder most foul. We cannot eradicaate the basis of any cause simply because terrorism by virtue of its very nature exists to perpetrate misery not as a means to any end but to further their causes..maybe economic, psychological or plain diabolical.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 21, 2008 @ 7:32 pm |
As for the rest of your comment Shaan, you sound like a Pakistani politico blatantly spouting white lies to cover up truth. Now that nawaz sharif has himself proclaimed that Kasab is a Pakistani, where is the point of the argument?
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 21, 2008 @ 7:34 pm |
Ananad I agree with most of your contention. I am dead against any form of legal aid to kasab. It is downright foolish. Sometimes we carry the secularism bit too far. It gets to me when i read of activists waxing eloquent on ;rights’ and all that crap when it comes to a terrorist. Antulay and his blaspehmeous talk needs to be severely reprimanded. Anything for being in the news..even if notoriously.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 21, 2008 @ 7:38 pm |
Rajeev..agree in toto.
Sanghamitra.. dont give up hope just yet. As you may have noticed, plenty of action is on. kasab is an important proof and he needs to be kept alive till the world does not proclaim equivocally that yes Pakistan is behind the terror attacks. So I guess and hope that our administration knows what they are doing this time.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 21, 2008 @ 7:41 pm |
Hey Sujoy..Good to see you back! Left a comment on your site. It rocks!
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 21, 2008 @ 7:45 pm |
Kaveetaa,
see this link from a pak newspaper
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=20081221story_21-12-2008_pg3_3
A US returned pakistani has expressed his sentiments about his country and also we get a idea of where they are heading…
Comment by Rajeev — December 21, 2008 @ 11:09 pm |
Of late the media and others have become so shady that,it is right time to shift the Marxist Paradigm of religion is the opium of the people to media is the opium of the people. What a shame , the common man has been reduced to listen, read and digest pulp fiction. So why not have Miguel de Cervantes ( Don Quixote and Sancho Panza fame)style approach to this whole media faux pax. Here you go. Let’s start.
Arundhati Roy is sitting on a throne to be honoured. Hamid Gul bursts into a song.
Hamid Gul : Kabhie , Kabhie Arundhati , thu likhthi ho tho acha lagta hai , Jaise ke mere mulq me mehktha hua phool barastha hai.
Chorus (ISI officers) : Hamesha acha lagta hai.
All the ISI officers request Arundhati to interview Hamid Gul and others.
A : Good morning Gul saab
G : Aadab
A : Kya 10 log aaisa kaam kaar sakthe hai.
G : Very Very good question. Mujhe bhi shakh
hai. These boys were very adventorous.
They came there for a picnic, dressed like
Rambhos. Baas.
A: Paar , woh world famous tasveer of the
young man.
G: Yeh saab , Bollywood ka fault hai. This
fellow was modelling outside , CST
station. Socha hoga , that chance mil
jayega.
A: I have been saying this time and again.
If you remove the s out of Communication
skills , then it becomes communication
kills.
G: Yes , it is again , Bollywood’s fault.
Amitabh Bachan has said ” English is a
phunny language. Yehi hota hai saab.
A : Paar yeh shooting ka awaz , aur yeh saab
3 police officer ko marna.
G: They were just acting , you know. They eat
lot of chick peas and you know , if you
have stored chickpeas in your stomach for
long hrs , then you can fart in noisy
decibels.
A : Interesting, continue.
G : What must have happened , is that some
Bollywood producer must have told them
to give poses for a long time and then
they must have farted loudly and somebody
must have fired at that time.
A : They are great . They are giving ideas to
science.
There is a commercial break….
Al sing in chorus ” Yeh , Gulbadan, Yeh Gulbadan , phoolo ki mehk , katon ki chuban.
To be continued….
As we are living in the world of Miguel de Cervantes. Cervantes was one of the most imaginative writers and a pioneer of political satire in Europe. It is really shameful to see , imaginary conjectures floating around, even though there is solid proof.
Comment by gajanan — December 22, 2008 @ 6:27 am |
Superb Link Rajeev!! Thanks. The world needs more such Muslims..in the true sense.
Gajanan ji.. Brilliant!
Presently I dont know whether it is Pakistans continuous flip flop and double speak which angers more or the horrifyingly blasphemous statements of Antulay. he deserves to be on the other side of the border.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 22, 2008 @ 9:18 pm |
Since the verdict is brilliant. lets continue
Commercial break over
A: Woh Nariman House ka incident
G : They are young boys , must have become
tired. They must have gone to Nariman
House to have juice. The Juice must have
been in a old pot you see. They must have
fired at it , in their dying thirst.
Actually the target was Juice not Jews.
A : Communication is such an honourable thing
Sometimes you have to have skills or other
wise it kills.
G: Aapka Kaalam bhi kamal ki cheejh hai aur
aap ka bolna , Pakeezah ka Meena Kumari
Yaad aati hai.
A: Inhi logone , Inhi logone , Inhi logone
le li kaalam mera, sorry , credit mera,
refering to Rushdie and others.
G: Antulay ke bare me kya vichar hai.
A: Mahan aadmi hai. Unka kahane me bahut sa
truth hai. Bees Saal Baad , Bekaraaar
Karthe hua, laut aagaye, aur aapki kasam ,
karkare karthe laut aaye hai.
G: Wah!! Aapka Shayiri , Lajawab
A : Nawaz Sharif kuch Kasab ke bare me galat
kaha na.
G : Sharif wants to be Namak haram and not
Halwa sharif. Badmash , lafanga hai.
Meeti Juban me bolta hai. Yeh saab bus
ride ka effect hai. Yaad hai woh din ,
hum saab sleep kaar rahe the, bus
amritsar se Lahore gayi , tho yeh
Sharif kaha raha tha ” Bus me Vajpayee aagya”. Ha!!! Ha!! laughs like Gabbar Singh. Bus me sirf ordinary people were there. Kuch bhi kahe deta hai. Very nalayak boy.
A : Mujhe bhi aaisa laga. Chanchal hai Sharif
Commercial break. Gul and all sing loudly.
Hamare Saamne wale desh me , ek Arundhati Roy Raheti hai. Hamahe Afsos nahi, ki us desh ke bare me , ukada tukda likhti hai.
Comment by gajanan — December 23, 2008 @ 5:28 am |
Lol..how I wish that those like Arundhati and Antuay go on to being from the ‘saamne wale desh’ since they seem so irked with India. We wont miss them one bit 🙂
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 24, 2008 @ 6:30 pm |
It is pain to see that instead of taking any action.. India is just raising voices which is really not affecting Pak in any way.. If our govt. doesn’t do anything even after making so many noises then i am sure that the terrorists would be convinced beyond any doubt that India is really “impotent” to take any action against them.. The India’s actions are similar to saying “I want to give you a slap so please place your cheek in front of my hand.. which is ridiculous..
Comment by Rajeev — December 24, 2008 @ 9:42 pm |
Frankly I dont agree with you Rajeev on India not taking any action.Pak not getting afected is another matter altogether. They have cleverly shifted the war from being one on terror to become one between India and Pak and made nuclear possibility a flashpoint.
India has utilised all the various options to bring on pressure from diplomatic offensive to economic. ICC is also beig brought into the picture. Pakistan day by day is losing its credibility and losing face in the world arena.
Today the FBI has openly declared that it has proof of the ultras having come from pakistan and inhabitants of that country.pakistan is basically exploiting the strong hold it seems to have on the US over the Afghanistan issue and also maybe the clout it hilds with other Muslim countries of the region. that is all. China too has backed off from giving it open support. What do you want India to do? War is always easy to wage but what will be the outcome?
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 24, 2008 @ 11:15 pm |
I agree Pakistan is losing credibility day by day but to be frank does pakistan has any credibility that we are saying they are losing it now..The west is still pestering them because they are dependant on pakistan for the war in afghanistan.. Also agree War is not a solution.. But India can atleast do the following since it has been victim of Pak’s terror for 20 years.
* Declare Pak a terrorist country.
* Break diplomatic ties.
* Ban pakistani goods.
I feel atleast these things would cost pakistan something .. In the current situation, though it is looking that India is going all out against pak.. really speaking the world will not act on our behalf. This is because the west is worried about their situation in afghanistan and nothing much can be expected out of China.. So diplomatically we can only go to a certain limit after which we will just appear as noise makers in front on the world or more so in front of the terrorists.. so if we have accepted that we cannot do much more than what is done currently then atleast our leaders should stop roaring in front of media..
Comment by Rajeev — December 25, 2008 @ 2:38 am |
An informative article in dailypioneer from g parthasarthy who was indian ambassador to pakistan for 5 yrs. He says the culprit is Pak army itself..
http://www.dailypioneer.com/145865/Its-time-to-call-Pakistans-bluff.html
Comment by Rajeev — December 25, 2008 @ 8:20 pm |
Gajanan..
Read the article in guardian written by Arundhati roy the great.. in that, She has just considered one angle that is of muslims and poor being victims and she is justifying terrorism as a fight by the poor and oppressed against the rich..which is incorrect.. Going by her theories, we should be having terrorist acts in all developing countries.. It is really sad and frustrating to see that we have writers of her stature who write with a myopic view and that to against the country where they reside.. I believe if she changes her mindset, she can really write something which can inspire masses..
Comment by Rajeev — December 27, 2008 @ 9:20 pm |
Arundhati or whoever tries to rationalise an act of terrorism with a justification, cause, rationalisation is not just in complete delusion but misguided. The ONLY intention of Islamic terrorists is the fervent zeal to subjugate the world to Islam. They call it ‘jihad’ or Holy war as a combative attempt against kafirs or non believers. Arundhati needs urgently to do a reality check. She is using her talent for the wrong ends and is attention seeking and annoying.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — December 28, 2008 @ 6:28 am |
Kav
IF the FBI you are talking about is just another division of the same entity that once had “solid proof” about Iraq possessing WMD then we are back to square one because you have no case.
I am very concerned about your attacks on Islam. Please do not allow a national tragedy to vent racist feelings. What happened in Bombay on 26/11 is human tragedy, but don’t misuse this event to tarnish Islam. Show me proof that your so called Islamic terrorism exists ? I see you as a somewhat rational person and hence I want to know what makes even a person like yourself suspend all rationality and think that there exists some people who want to convert those unlike them at all cost (even via killing, AS IF THAT IS POSSIBLE). If Muslims are so evil then explain why one of the holiest of all Jewish shrine, the one that the Jews make pilgrimage to, still exist in Djerba in Southern Tunisia. Why if Islam is so demented then it has not used an Ayodhya like event to raze this shrine ? Islam has been in control of Tunisia since the seventh century, a good 1500 years and yet it has nourished, and preserved Jewish holy sites and a native Jewish population. Explain how this is possible.
Given your attacks on Islam, explain why Non Muslims do not want to leave Morocco (a neighboring country to Tunisia) or even Iran. You need to explain the golden human era, i.e. the Muslim Spain. You need to explain why when Muslim spain fell, Turkey and all the North African Muslim countries gave protection to Non Muslims. You need to explain the existence of Jews, Christians, Churches, Synagogues in ALL Islamic countries, not just North Africa and Middle East. You need to explain why Muslims and Non Muslims speak with one voice in Palestine. ON THE OTHER HAND explain why not a single mosque from olden days exists in Spain, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, etc (i.e. much of eastern and southern Europe).
If you look at reality you will see ample facts that will convince you that Islam has always been accommodating. A Muslim son has been commanded to willingly & cheerfully take his Non Muslim parents to their place of worship. A Muslim husband has been commanded not to force his Non-Muslim wife to convert to Islam. Islamic tolerance is visible in the existence of Churches and Synagogues in Muslim countries. Islamic tolerance is visible in a “happy and blended” Non Muslim population in Muslim countries. In Morocco, most meat trade is entrusted to Jews. In Iran, even after being offered huge amount of US Tax payer’s money by Israel, its Jewish population refuses to leave Iran (even today).
Yet you talk about Muslims wanting to convert Non Muslims ? Why such lies ? Why such fear mongering ? Is this healthy ?
Comment by Shaan Khan — January 1, 2009 @ 6:29 pm |
Turkey, remember the great Sufi, Rumi. who had mystical songs, was born there. Then Morocco, Tunisia, has a great amount of Sufi influence in them. Sufism is a part of which has borrowed from the indigenous beliefs of the local culture. For example , Darvaish is a swirling revolving dance music in Turkey. Qawalli and Ghazals in India and Pakistan is a part of indigenous Sufi culture.
Sufism is very secular compared to Wahabbi type. Unfortunately Wahhabi type took a giant leap after the oil boom of 1973. Then came the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan and the rest is history. Wahhabism was pampered by US to topple the Soviet Union. The story of Charlie Wilson is evident of this. See the movie where Zia ul Haq ( the architect of this super mess) is shown ( Om Puri). The euphoria after the fall of Soviet Union , fuelled by the carelessness of the West resulted in all let loose in that region. The West, US specifically, let the genie out of the bottle and it is the responsiblity of the West to tame it or reform it and not play a double game of coaltion of willing (giving aid) and killing ( also do the bombing). Giving aid to Pakistan with no accountablity and then shooting missiles reminds one of the great sarcastic quote of Gandhi that Western civilization is a good idea. OR, let the region affected most tell the West, “Look we can manage ourselves, do not give us aid and shoot missiles also, we have taken Gandhian philosophy seriously and soon we will have our own Gandhi, meaning we will eschew all violence”
Comment by gajanan — January 4, 2009 @ 8:02 am |
Its just not between wahabbis and sufis.. Few days back i read about another sect called salafis(a sect within sunnis) which is having radical views.. The gulf countries (except iran which is majority shia) are all sunni majority with wahabbi type.. I read that the radical salafis hate wahhabis.. Most of the groups on pak-afghan border are hardline salafis type.. These people dont recognize saudi monarchy also(who follow wahhabism) and are totally against them.. Whatever may be the case , if someone is taking to terrorism to push across his views then that needs to be condemned and neutralized.. I believe a large parts of india, pakistan are also under influence of sufism, who are accomodating and align themselves with local culture..
Comment by Rajeev — January 4, 2009 @ 8:32 am |
Shaan..you disappoint me. Either you are intentionally misconstruing my comment or in a knee jerk reaction have gone tangentially off topic.
It was Islamic terrorists I was referring to not Mulims. In fact the kind of reaction most Muslims today reflect is hearteneing to say the least. they have come out in droves against this massacr. I would have appreciated a similar response from you. My closest friends follow Islamic tenets..I respect them deeply. There is no question of equating Islam with the interpretations of the terrorists version.
A must read..
http://muslimmatters.org/2008/11/26/terrorists-on-murderous-rampage-in-mumbai-join-the-condemnation/
Muslims in reaction..
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 5, 2009 @ 7:32 pm |
A happy New Year to ALL 🙂
May 2009 bring in paeace, harmony and happiness on personal front and international and national levels as well.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 5, 2009 @ 7:33 pm |
Kav
Most terrorism is drug related and has nothing to do with nationalism or freedom. Apart from that the majority of the balance (perhaps more painful in substance) is practiced by states (e.g. see the bombing of Gaza with F16s). There is no Islamic Terrorism just like there is no Jewish Terrorism or Christian Terrorism or Hindu Terrorism or Sikh terrorism or Budhist Terrorism. All religions prod humankind towards goodness. Yes it is true that terrorism does exist (as pointed out earlier), but terrorist are just that, plain, TERRORIST. Terrorist have no religion. Trying to assign terrorism to Islam or any religion is an evil practice far greater than terrorism itself.
Certainly Islam the religion does not support or condone terrorism. Furthermore it is very apparent that the misguided individuals amongst the Muslims who partake in such heinous activities are guided by their desire for freedom or some sick desire to “get even” for past grievances. If these individuals were guided by religion they would not kill indiscriminately. If these individuals were guided by religion they would not oppress the innocent. If these individuals were guided by religion, then they would be as tolerant as the “Sahabas” were when they took over Cairo (they refused to pray in Churches and Synagogues out of fear that some demented & misguided Muslim in the future would seek to convert them into a Mosque) or as tolerant as Salladin was when he took over Jerusalem (provided safe passage to all, and resisted the temptation to get even).
Regardless of how misguided and demented some of these so called “Islamic Terrorist” are, show me statistically valid cases where they have sought conversion of Non Muslims to Islam ? Show me evidence that state that these delusional creatures are in some way attempting some sort of pious sin (BTW pious sin is illegal in Islam) ?
Hence as you can see, Islamic Terrorist is a politically loaded word. It is an evil which tarnishes the great religion of Islam as opposed to solve any problem.
Comment by Shaan Khan — January 5, 2009 @ 8:11 pm |
Raj
All religions are under attack from forces of secularism. It is now become a religion to tear apart all traditional religions. No religion is spared. But look at the reality. For example, Salafis are merely trying to cleanse their religion from corruption and contamination. You can, borrowing from the field of fine art, say that they belong to the Neo-Classical school of religion. They are merely trying to go back to their roots, which BTW does not condone terrorism. Infact from a Salafist point of view even in a “legitimate war” they are forbidden to kill innocent humans, or destroy any infra structure (including water suplly), or animals or trees. Clearly a self proclaimed Salafi wanting to terrorize, is an ignorant idiot who does not understand the Salafi position (the whole concept is an oxy moron). From a Salafi’s standpoint, the existence of terrorism is a corruption of Islam.
When religions are free from the relentless attack from the secularists, we will see that PERHAPS the way to eradicate the beachhead, that some terrorist has created in religion, is to increase the true religious knowledge of the common people. The answer lies in PERHAPS having more Madrassa but run by knowledgeable teachers, PERHAPS true Salafis. It is not the fault of Wahabis or the Salafis or the Soofis. It is not the fault of religion. Terrorism is absence of religion. The cure therefore will be to eradicate ignorance and bring back true religion.
Comment by Shaan Khan — January 5, 2009 @ 8:35 pm |
Wish you all a very happy and properous new year 2009 !!
Comment by Rajeev — January 6, 2009 @ 7:58 am |
Soofi’s or Sufis have never been in fault. Very rarely a Sufi has been at fault. If one , you could point out. You could call Bahadur Shah Zafar as a Semi-Sufi. The most oustanding example, is Urdu in Sufi literature in the sub continent context. Now to come to brass tacks , if you sing the Urdu or Hindi (Devnagari) lyrics of ” O Hasina Zulfo wali jaane jaha, dhundthi hai kafir aankhen kiska nasha” in Arabic it will not have the romantic flavour which Urdu or for that matter Hindi has. As soon as you switch over , the entire poetry , verve and aada of the subcontinent is lost. That is the beauty of the sub continent. It is the greatest shock absorber of the entire world, it absorbs and then releases its own version. This own version is what is important , matching to the local culture, where the indigenous population is not forced to do something for lure or pseudo cure. Sufi’s in India like Kabir, Rais Khan ( composed songs on Krishna) and present musicians like Amjad Ali Khan , the late Bismillah Khan are the icons to be emulated as they stand (stood) tall in their faith immersed in subcontinental character.
Comment by gajanan — January 6, 2009 @ 7:59 am |
Shaan,
Agreed terrorists dont have a religion but when they (mis)use a particular religion to accomplish their heinous acts then unfortunately it brings a bad name to that religion.. I feel its not just drugs which are responsible for causing terrorists activities… Its a mix of sometimes poverty, sometimes political (mal)intentions or exploitation which drive a person to become a terrorist. Sometimes nationalism is also there .. the glaring example of nationalism/freedom is LTTE.. and As you have mentioned, there are some ignorant idiots also, who come from well to do families, who get involved in this just for the sake of it.. In fact today i came across an article in rediff .. they have reproduced the original article written by a lahore based newspaper editor.. he has mentioned that it was abject poverty and endless exploitation by rich landlords which led kasab to become a terrorist.
http://www.rediff.com/news/2009/jan/05mumterror-how-ajmal-kasab-took-to-radical-islam.htm
May god give strength and wisdom to everybody to shed ignorance and find true peace..
Comment by Rajeev — January 6, 2009 @ 8:27 am |
Shaan on Islamic terrorism.
In one of your earlier comments you mention “this talk of Coke and LSD in the blood of the terrorist does not sit well. If these guys are religious nutcases than I would expect a “Kalima” on their lips rather than Coke and LSD in their blood. No “religious” Muslim would inject himself with Coke and LSD just before his imminent death.”
You do admit that the kalima has to do with Islam now dont you? If a terorist in India decides to say ” Hey Bajrangbali” or some other invocation that eggs him on I would have no qualms at all referring to him as a Hindu terrorist. We all know terrorism has no religion since they have chosen to radicalise portions of religious texts to their advantage or for rationalising their violence.
I find it difficult to understand why the obvious reference piques you so. It does in no way undermine Islam..on the contrary watchful and educated Muslims have used this opportunity to wax eloquent on the true meaning of Islam.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 6, 2009 @ 10:10 am |
Rajeev and Gajanan ji well said.
Rajeev, brainn washing vulnerable minds coupled with economic compunctions is clearly evident in almost all terrorist strategies.
Gajanan ji.. I think we can include Abida Parveen too. I simply adore her music. Hear her sing Bulle Shah
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 6, 2009 @ 10:13 am |
Kav
Yes I stand by my statement. A religious Muslim (one who is guided by Islam) will have “Kalima” on his lips rather than “LSD & Coke” in his blood. Unstated (because it seems redundant) is that is that a religious Muslim will not be killing and terrorizing innocent people.
Let me put this in another way. Say, if a mentally deranged person, kills someone and then claims that a black cat on a moon less night told him to do so. No one, if that were to happen, would seek to put the cat in a gas chamber. No even will even entertain the mental ill person’s claims by arguing that a cat in incapable of speaking to a human. One would either process the person as a criminal or a mental handicapped person. Only an equally mental person would take such a claim seriously. Likewise when an ignorant fool takes refuge in any religion to cover up his heinous crime, only a mentally sick person (i.e. a racist person)would blame THE RELIGION.
To be very honest till recently I too used to be “lazy” and made use of such loaded labels to make my points e.g. “Right Wing Hindu Fundamentalist”. But the truth is there is nothing “Hindu” about those people. If they were decent Hindus, they would not harm other people. It does not matter what they claim. I would not allow his “Jai Bajrangbali” cries to fool me (using your example). I stand by my statement that Terrorism is an absence of religion. Those that assign terrorism to any religion are doing a greater evil than terrorism itself.
Ofcourse this matter of terrorism is very complicated. Some of the so called terrorist are merely freedom fighters. But let us not go on a tangent for the moment. My position will always be that genuine freedom and equality is the only thing that will guaranty lasting peace. Wherever there is freedom for some and not all, opportunity for some and not all, etc there will be chaos.
Peace to all.
Comment by Shaan Khan — January 6, 2009 @ 8:06 pm |
Yes I stand by my statement. A religious Muslim (one who is guided by Islam) will have “Kalima” on his lips rather than “LSD & Coke” in his blood. Unstated (because it seems redundant) is that a religious Muslim will not be killing and terrorizing innocent people.
Let me put this in another way. Say, if a mentally deranged person, kills someone and then claims that a black cat on a moon less night told him to do so. No one, if that were to happen, would seek to put the cat in a gas chamber. No one will even entertain the mental ill person’s claims by arguing that a cat in incapable of speaking to a human. One would either process the person as a criminal or a mental handicapped person. Only an equally mental person would take such a claim seriously. Likewise when an ignorant fool takes refuge in any religion to cover up his heinous crime, only a mentally sick person (i.e. a racist person)would blame THE RELIGION.
To be very honest till recently I too used to be “lazy” and made use of such loaded labels to make my points e.g. “Right Wing Hindu Fundamentalist”. But the truth is there is nothing “Hindu” about these people. If they were decent Hindus, they would not harm other people. It does not matter what they claim. I would not allow their “Jai Bajrangbali” cries to fool me (using your example). I stand by my statement that Terrorism is an absence of religion. Those that assign terrorism to any religion are doing a greater evil than terrorism itself. I choose to not commit evil.
Ofcourse this matter of terrorism is very complicated. Some of the so called terrorist are merely freedom fighters. But let us not go on a tangent for the moment. My position will always be that genuine freedom and equality is the only thing that will guaranty lasting peace. Wherever there is freedom for some and not for all, opportunity for some and not for all, etc there will be chaos.
Peace to all.
Comment by Shaan Khan — January 6, 2009 @ 8:10 pm |
Raj
Let us think outside the box for a moment.
The one thing that all terrorist use is Guns (weapons). Why not assign equally responsibility to the weapon manufacturers ? If a weapon from a particular manufacturer is found in a terrorist activity, let society sue that manufacturer. Needless to say if that were to happen, the manufactures would try to get away by just placing a label, “Not intended for terrorist activity” on the guns (just like the warning label on cigarettes). But seriously, if the responsibility shifted to gun makers, things will be different. Hence as you can see our arguments whether religion is responsible or not is just something that “keeps us busy” without solving anything. Our pseudo arguments are intended to keep the spot light away from real criminals. It is for us to decide whether we would like to just keep ourselves busy, or whether we would like to solve something. I say that eliminating false issues is one way forward.
Comment by Shaan Khan — January 6, 2009 @ 8:22 pm |
Shaan,
If you are talking of suing.. well Now the whole world knows that the terrorists of 11/26 originated from pakistan.. After giving all evidence has pakistan done anything? NO.. so yes..India is trying to catch the perpetrators but Indian laws and writ dont extend beyond india’s boundaries so its the responsibility of that state to take care of it.. Its as simple as that.. But we all know why pakistan is not taking action.. because it wants to use some people/groups to continue attacking india covertly and so they dont want to punish their milking cows… Going to the level of weapon manufacturers, its a meaningless arguement.. In fact I read the terrorists used chinese made grenades.. so by your logic China should ban the grenade manufacturer.. which is not at all practicle..
Comment by Rajeev — January 6, 2009 @ 9:49 pm |
Raj
You and I live (perhaps) in different worlds. In the world that I live in there exist International Courts where one can settle trade disputes as well seek justice whenever crimes against humanity is committed.
As far as the lone terrorist who was caught in Mumbai (the rest had their faces & ID erased) the jury is still out. Indian sources say that FBI has handed over evidence and Pakistani sources say no evidence has been found to implicate anyone. Information Clearing House agrees with Pakistan.
Comment by Shaan Khan — January 7, 2009 @ 1:47 am |
Raj
Just in case you would like to see the link :
http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=80081§ionid=351020401
My point is that for every claim that India has, Pakistan has a counter claim. In India we show evidence, out there they also show evidence that implicates RAW. As things stand now it would be impossible to settle this the “old fashion” way (Thank God). Hence it it time to drive forward without out only looking in the rear mirror. India as a economical block with Pakistan, Burma, Nepal and Sri Lanka is better for all in the Indian subcontinent.
Comment by Shaan Khan — January 7, 2009 @ 2:07 am |
Shaan,
Whatever the case may be.. I agree with Indian government.. We should remember that India has faced lot more terrorist acts.. and whenever the culprits were from within India , India did not point fingers at Pak.. There may be ifs and buts in that.. But i think if there is a basic disagreement,between us, over the stuff then there is no point in arguing further.. Let Pakistan or whoever believes them remain in state of denial.. It is not helping the case in any way.. and when we have so much evidence, i feel we dont need another tamasha and deceitful action, from pak side, in International court of justice..
Good Luck..
Comment by Rajeev — January 7, 2009 @ 3:45 am |
Regarding # 62 , pak newspapers are admitting that kasab is from pakistan.. i have seen not one but 2-3 papers saying it..
Comment by Rajeev — January 7, 2009 @ 3:53 am |
Shaan , rajiv please refer to todays update on the post. Pakistan has admitted that kasab is a Pakistani national.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 7, 2009 @ 9:03 pm |
Transcripts of tapes between terrorists and handlers from Pakistan…shocking
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 7, 2009 @ 9:36 pm |
Another MUST READ>>
Pranab Mukherjee blasts Pakistan
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 7, 2009 @ 9:44 pm |
phew !! at last pakistan has admitted to something.. Times of India had printed some more excerpts from the transcripts.. It clearly showed that it was a utterly ruthless and calculated cold blooded murder… If the victim would have been any other country than India then i am sure that by now some sort of conflict would have started..
After looking at history, I am also sure that still someone from pakistan or its “Supporters” would come up with an interesting story that the real kasab is still in pakistan and the fellow caught by India was a RAW agent.. some other “passionate words” like FBI, Mossad would be added in that story to give it more “credibility”..
Comment by Rajeev — January 7, 2009 @ 11:58 pm |
Rajeev, their immediate reaction on receiving the dossier was that Indias proof wasnt credible! Pranab Mukherjees lambasting them and pressure from the US made them recant. This does open up possibilities.Kasab has revealed names of those behind the massacre, which lead on to even a major general from the army who was guiding the LEt leaders on the attack. Will Pakistan neutralise these elements which it has so far been protecting? Until the next step is not taken, that of eliminating terror groups, just this admission will be an eyewash.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 8, 2009 @ 7:41 am |
Kaveetaa,
My suspicion has come true.. See the version of JUD on the nationality of Kasab.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/JuD_dismisses_Kasabs_identity_as_a_Pak_national/articleshow/3953401.cms
They are saying “We don’t know what took the Pakistan government so long to admit that Kasab is a Pakistani. This was known in Pakistan. We all know about the disclosure made by lawyer C M Farooq that Kasab was a Pakistani based in Nepal from where he was abducted by Indian agencies” .. An interesting comment..
Lets hope that pak acts against the terror groups.. But looking at things.. it looks like its an uphill task and in fact there is also a question mark on whether they are really willing to do it also.. It is also becoming clear that it was not a work of some “mental retards” but a properly planned and executed event.. Stage managed by Let with support from Pak army and ISI..
Comment by Rajeev — January 9, 2009 @ 1:32 am |
Rajeev lets not even lend credence to these absurd allegations by the Jud by responding . Pakistan’s rehnumaas are misguided lot and one can only pity the sane brethren of that country. Just as Muslims in India have come out in droves to protest and voice their disgust at the attacks I am sure that the mature citizenry in Pakistan too must be squirming at the large scale inhumanity on display by their fellow citizens.
That this operation/war/siege/ had the backing and support of high ranking Military and ISI officials is beyond a pale of doubt. This is in fact worrisome. Just waht category should we put our neighbour country in? They certainly arent a democracy, not obviously a military rue either and openly protecting terrorists and underworld mafia. How long before pakistan is recognised as a terrorist state by World leaders is the question. Just because zardari and geelani present a semblance of democracy .it is no proof of anything but anarchy ruling there. A swallow doesnt a summer make.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 9, 2009 @ 6:25 pm |
It was good to see Indian muslims and also the dar-ul-uloom protesting against this incident. This has avoided undesired controveries in the aftermath..
I feel Pakistan is ruled by a “marriage of convenience” between pak army, ISI and the jihadis. Zardari and Gilani are just political face of this alliance. Today only Gilani gave a statement connecting palestine, kashmir, afghan ,mumbai everything. Pakistan thinks that they bear responsibility for and have control over everything which is happening in the muslim world. But they forget that they are economically weak and shouldn’t do such stunts.. As we know, the gulf countries, who are better poised to do this job are already fighting it out in UN or providing help to palestinians. It is also looking like they want to somehow put the Mumbai incidents under the carpet so that they are free to plan the next attacks and again do the same drama war mongering, outright lies, nonsense counter claims etc..
The middle class in Pakistan may be against this unholy alliance but dont know if they really have a voice or are in a position to act. whatever may be the case, they need to put their act together before it becomes too late..
Comment by Rajeev — January 10, 2009 @ 10:52 pm |
Rajeev Pakistan is so accustomed to forging alliances with terror bands to secure their ends that the line of differentiation between ultras, army, government and various terror outfits is blurred forever. Nawaz Sharif sporadically keeps giving these statements ‘ investigate Indias proof..dont be lax’ etc…but soon enough recants once the button is pushed. US of A has to play a stern elder brother( which in fact it is…nothing in Pakistan has been created without thier knowledge and consent) if things need to be sorted..or else this ludicrous empty, inane game playing can go on forever.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 14, 2009 @ 6:03 pm |
Read Chidambarams clear threat to Pak
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/India_may_snap_trade_transport_link_with_Pak/articleshow/3973604.cms
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 14, 2009 @ 6:54 pm |
NOTHING Just NOTHING can be expected from our ministers. They don’t have the guts to send forces to attack on Pak Teror camps. Our Army,Air Force & Navy are ready and waiting for the nod. Things would have been diffrent if Vallabh Bhai Patel or Lal Bahadur Shastry or Indira Gandhi were alive. Least can be done by Pranab or Chidambram. The minister says we will stop entertaining Pak Tourists. The country is bothered not for Tourists but TERRORISTS who easily get in and finish their work. Alas ! if few top politicians would have died in Bombay Blasts.
“We need not worry about those who have come through BOAT, but must worry about those who have come through VOTE !”
Comment by Anand Berry — January 14, 2009 @ 8:12 pm |
agreed that if Indira Gandhi or Shastry or Vallabh bhai patel would have been there then things surely would have been different. But looking at the current brand of politicians I dont think if there are any politicians who would do something different or better than Chidambaram or Pranab.. In addition to that, the present scenario of coalition politics has made a mockery of our democracy. When a leader starts getting powerful, he/she forms their own party so that they can bargain their share and also unfortunately keep the coalition on gas as far as possible to extract maximum benefits from it.. Few days back i read an article in which sharad pawar has predicted that it would be another 10-15 yrs before people start realising the futility of coalitions and go back to bigger parties..
Only expectation is that, now the current govt. will last only for about 4-5 months so after that whoever comes it should not forget the mumbai incidents and also not forgive pakistan for it.. The price of these forgive/forget policies is increasing with each such incident..
Comment by Rajeev — January 15, 2009 @ 7:00 am |
The best way is to stop all transactions both monetary and ambassadorial contacts, just all things as P Chidambaram has said. Will it be implemented? Instead of politicians mouthing with their well ironed -well dressed outfits on TV which is very very biased, why don’t they interview the living world famous photographed in CST terminus on TV for a live telecast globally. All media has no guts, but just rant some homilies which sounds 100% lies. Just turn on and say, the media is the opium of the people.
Comment by gajanan — January 15, 2009 @ 9:28 am |
Anand, frankly its not as if the ministers dont want to or dont have the guts to wage a war. IMO its more a tactic to gain International collaboration onan embargo with Pak..which may or may not be forthcoming. Indians cant be Israelis ..that is for sure. But Israel is a law unto itself. they have earned that palce the hard way. that country is something else. I have visitd these quite extensively. each and every young person is enrolled in the army. their life is a tale of survival and struggle, comabat and defense. they are trained to be warriors.Indians are not like that.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 16, 2009 @ 8:27 pm |
What do all of you think of Narendra Modi as the next PM? Would he be successful in taking India to the place in the world it deserves?
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 16, 2009 @ 8:28 pm |
Dear Kaveeta ji,
I really appreciate the concerns raised by you against inhuman terrorist attacks.Today more than blaming the govt. and system, there is a need to create awareness amongst people, especially youths, and jointly raise a war against terrorism- involving all sections of society.We need to be vigilant and aware of surroundings, keep things such as emergency numbers handy and physically prepared to encounter if such a situation arise. More than that, we need to rise above the psyche of terrorism, only if we choose not to be afraid but face such threats boldly, than will terrorism cease to exist. Ours is a land of Bhagat Singh and Chandrashekhar Azad-lets not forget this and keep the flame ablaze!
Comment by Anup — January 21, 2009 @ 3:43 pm |
Well said Anup! Today more than ever before I feel strongly comforted in the positive spirit of our youth and the boldness of the common man.
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 21, 2009 @ 7:24 pm |
Guys..dont skim over to the comment section without reading the latest updates..thanks
Comment by Kaveetaa Kaul — January 25, 2009 @ 7:17 pm |
This was quite ridiculous.
Comment by rajkumar — February 5, 2009 @ 4:13 pm |
One hundred days after the cowardly attacks, we have one short post to remember the innocent victims.
Do what you can so that such events do not recur.
Comment by MB — March 10, 2009 @ 11:34 am |
I am commenting on one sentence from Shaan’s comment No. 49 :
“Trying to assign ….blah blah blah… to ….blah blah… is an evil practice far greater than terrorism itself.”
Huh ? How can you compare a mere “assigning” of one idea to another idea, which can be undone or easily corrected in the mind, with deliberate killing of unarmed and innocent people — something that can never be undone ?
You have said that terrorism is the lesser of the “evils”. If you are not justifying killings, what are you doing ?
I have no complaints with Shaan’s keeping his beliefs on Islam, as he is free to have them, but the cornerpiece of his argument is fatally flawed.
http://mumbaibai.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/one-hundred-days-ago/
Comment by MB — March 10, 2009 @ 12:07 pm |
Ever since 9th-10th of January, that is, ever since Pakistan itself admitted for the first time that the attackers were Pakistani, the vociferous Shaan Khan is nowhere to be seen on this blog. Coincidence ?
Comment by No Shaan No Khan — March 18, 2009 @ 8:39 pm |
May I simply say what a relief to uncover a person that actually understands what they’re discussing online.
You certainly realize how to bring an issue to light and make
it important. More people really need to look at this
and understand this side of the story. I was surprised you aren’t more popular
given that you surely have the gift.
Comment by http://seks-i.com/index.php?task=profile&id=4730 — September 6, 2014 @ 9:04 pm |